We're working on a parser for our band's setlists, and we want it to be compatible (and eventually, to be able to cross-reference included songs with) setlists from Grateful Dead, Allman Brothers, Widespread Panic, Travelin' McCourys, Leftover Salmon, Billy Strings, etc.
We have run into this question already a few times: when we have a guest, and we play an original written by that guest, how is it best reflected in the setlist?
I haven’t programmed this issue specifically, but Billy Strings has sat in with Trey Anastasio a few times. For me if they do a cover of the guests song, I would say it’s a cover until that member is added to the lineup. I would check how the PhishNet API handles it (I think they have a is_original Boolean). Phish does “covers” of the 2001 theme, I’d wonder if that’s considered a cover even though it was just a small tone poem from 100+ years ago??
He's another one, you might call it the Music of Theseus.
A band records and releases a song on its first album.
Several years or decades later,
after numerous personnel changes,
none of the musicians that were in the band at the time the song was released are still with the group.
The band plays the song in concert.
Is that original or a cover?
Great question. Is there a particular setlist which you think is notable and which has such an instance? I'd love to converse about how to properly parse it.
Oh my goodness, I second that nomination. :-) I had never heard of them (or The Saints, their kin). Are they good? What a crazy perfect name though.
I see that they did some touring as recently as 2019. Do you have a good enough understanding of the lineage(s) in question to know whether the setlist.fm parser does justice per the thread topic (and related important edge cases)?
In most cases it looks like "The Saints" songs are listed as covers. I wonder if there's a totally different designation trying to emerge here.
Certainly curious to hear long-form thoughts on any specific song in a specific setlist that might provide insight.
> Do you have a good enough understanding of the lineage(s) in question to know whether the setlist.fm parser does justice per the thread topic (and related important edge cases)?
I have a rich inner grasp of lineages I've followed .. it's a tough domain to expand into uniform generic meta data form.
WRT The Saints I'm less a fan of Chris Bailey (one co-founder) more a fan of Ed Kuepper (another founder).
The Saints are arguably (let's not do that now) the progenitor punk band (well, ok, one of them .. not first to record as such)
With their debut single "(I'm) Stranded", released in September 1976, they became the first punk band outside the US to release a record, ahead of the first UK punk releases from the Damned, the Sex Pistols and the Clash.
Eternally Yours (Laughing Clowns from the album Law Of Nature (1983))
The setlist.fm for The Aint's is really reflecting Ed Kuepper's musical history featuring works and reworkings of anything he's ever touched.
Here's Ed Kuepper and the Kowalski Collective closing out a set in Sept. 2020 with a 10 minute extended encore of Electrical Storm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekVdws3020
I do know of cases where a band split up, then the various members formed new bands and each claimed the song. Roger Waters e.g. left the band and tried to stop the remaining members from using the name Pink Floyd. It was a bit of a legal mess. Waters still plays Pink Floyd songs.
Indeed this is an interesting edge case. Is there a real-world example of this to use as fodder for conversation?
It'd be especially relevant if the material is widely covered by other bands, and is intermixed with traditional music.
I'm guessing this is a thing that Lynard Skynard fans have to think about? I'm not familiar with the setlist culture surrounding that band, but my guess is that there is a vibrant one.
The problem is with musical taxonomy.
We're working on a parser for our band's setlists, and we want it to be compatible (and eventually, to be able to cross-reference included songs with) setlists from Grateful Dead, Allman Brothers, Widespread Panic, Travelin' McCourys, Leftover Salmon, Billy Strings, etc.
We have run into this question already a few times: when we have a guest, and we play an original written by that guest, how is it best reflected in the setlist?
I haven’t programmed this issue specifically, but Billy Strings has sat in with Trey Anastasio a few times. For me if they do a cover of the guests song, I would say it’s a cover until that member is added to the lineup. I would check how the PhishNet API handles it (I think they have a is_original Boolean). Phish does “covers” of the 2001 theme, I’d wonder if that’s considered a cover even though it was just a small tone poem from 100+ years ago??
He's another one, you might call it the Music of Theseus.
A band records and releases a song on its first album. Several years or decades later, after numerous personnel changes, none of the musicians that were in the band at the time the song was released are still with the group. The band plays the song in concert. Is that original or a cover?
What if the original band members meanwhile reunite and form a new band? Whose song is it?
Great question. Is there a particular setlist which you think is notable and which has such an instance? I'd love to converse about how to properly parse it.
Not a specific answer to the specific question ... buuut ...
Possibly the best "new but not the old" name ever:
The Aints (with a later iteration: The Aints!) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aints
Ascension (1991): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3-L_1zw0Gc
> Possibly the best "new but not the old" name ever:
> The Aints (with a later iteration: The Aints!) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aints
Oh my goodness, I second that nomination. :-) I had never heard of them (or The Saints, their kin). Are they good? What a crazy perfect name though.
I see that they did some touring as recently as 2019. Do you have a good enough understanding of the lineage(s) in question to know whether the setlist.fm parser does justice per the thread topic (and related important edge cases)?
In most cases it looks like "The Saints" songs are listed as covers. I wonder if there's a totally different designation trying to emerge here.
Certainly curious to hear long-form thoughts on any specific song in a specific setlist that might provide insight.
Setlists are here:
https://www.setlist.fm/search?query=the+aints
> Do you have a good enough understanding of the lineage(s) in question to know whether the setlist.fm parser does justice per the thread topic (and related important edge cases)?
Oh, geez, you want rock notes? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYVO0OakllY )
I have a rich inner grasp of lineages I've followed .. it's a tough domain to expand into uniform generic meta data form.
WRT The Saints I'm less a fan of Chris Bailey (one co-founder) more a fan of Ed Kuepper (another founder).
The Saints are arguably (let's not do that now) the progenitor punk band (well, ok, one of them .. not first to record as such)
Stranded (OG THe Saints): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3H4U6P9KUIThe Aints and Laughing Clowns, et al are the follow on arc of guitarist-songwriter Ed Kuepper who is worthy of following in his own right.
The Way I Made You Feel (solo album Honey Steels Gold (1991)): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhuxY30nbDE
Eternally Yours (Laughing Clowns from the album Law Of Nature (1983))
The setlist.fm for The Aint's is really reflecting Ed Kuepper's musical history featuring works and reworkings of anything he's ever touched.
Here's Ed Kuepper and the Kowalski Collective closing out a set in Sept. 2020 with a 10 minute extended encore of Electrical Storm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekVdws3020
( better version from a 2008 liveset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p9xCfk3F4s )
> Are they good? What a crazy perfect name though.
I'm pretty fond of his work .. it's your call as to whether you like this music or not though - no judgement.
I do know of cases where a band split up, then the various members formed new bands and each claimed the song. Roger Waters e.g. left the band and tried to stop the remaining members from using the name Pink Floyd. It was a bit of a legal mess. Waters still plays Pink Floyd songs.
Indeed this is an interesting edge case. Is there a real-world example of this to use as fodder for conversation?
It'd be especially relevant if the material is widely covered by other bands, and is intermixed with traditional music.
I'm guessing this is a thing that Lynard Skynard fans have to think about? I'm not familiar with the setlist culture surrounding that band, but my guess is that there is a vibrant one.
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